This an excerpt of an interview with Simon Lehrer of Parker’s Table from Episode 9 of the Chew In The Lou podcast. This segment has been edited and adjusted for clarity.
Joe Prosperi
We are being joined by Simon Lehrer, manager of Parker's Table in Richmond Heights. Welcome, Simon.
Simon Lehrer
Thank you so much for having me.
Joe Prosperi
Simon is the cheese monger over there at Parker's Table and we are really excited to really dive into an in-depth conversation here, about cheese, about wine about holiday party planning about just really all of your party planning, entertaining needs for the holidays. I think he's got some really great experience from the pre talk we've been having about what to get, what to eat, what to pair. And we're just going to kind of dive into that and just have a quick conversation because we all know holidays are all about eating.
Lydia Gwin
Yes. Okay. Well, Simon first, tell us a little bit about yourself. How does one become a cheese monger?
Simon Lehrer
Well, it helps being born in Wisconsin, you're sort of born into it.
Joe Prosperi
So, you're a cheese head.
Simon Lehrer
That's exactly right. Yeah, so it was sort of immersed in it, you know, my whole life. I would say it's, you know, I thought I knew something about cheese being from Wisconsin and tasting… You know, we always had tons of cheese and dairy around the house. Also, you know, we grew up on a farm. So, I was around the animals, and you know, great food and huge gardens and that kind of stuff, and then got into the food industry, worked in bakeries, and started doing some promotions for liquor and that kind of stuff and realized the world was a little bigger than I thought it was. And initially, my first true job as a cheese monger was at the wine merchant. And I got to start with a number of great people over there and realized very quickly, I really didn't know anything about cheese. You know, there was a lot more to the world than flavored cheddars and brick and Colby, Colby Jack and you know...
Lydia Gwin
And the cheese curds.
Joe Prosperi
Right, was there a moment where you like bit into a cheese that you'd never had before? And you were like, "This is it this is my life going forwards."
Simon Lehrer
I would say that's every time I bite into cheese. I would say more unusual was the first time I had one that was like, oh, wow, I wouldn't even know that that really is cheese that is not for me, which happens very rarely.
Joe Prosperi
What was that?
Simon Lehrer
That is a really unusual cheese from Spain called Afuega'l Pitu, and it has a texture of sort of like what I would imagine dried Styrofoam is and then a very sour bile-y flavor to it on top of it.
Lydia Gwin
At least it's not cheese from France, because I feel like that would just be detrimental to the French reputation of cheese.
Simon Lehrer
No. Only if it's truly got, you know, spoiled, rotten, terrible.
Lydia Gwin
Well, let's share really quick because I think it's fascinating… The intensive researching and journey that you have to go on to become a cheese monger is very similar to a wine sommelier. And I think that's a little bit more popular in people's mind. But there's a whole process to be coined and to be appointed as one.
Simon Lehrer
Yeah, luckily, I started, you know, started this journey 25 years ago. And so, back then the industry was much, much smaller. I mean, we were still really getting our first artisan cheese makers, just getting going, especially in Missouri. That was one of the reasons why I stayed in Missouri actually, was the fact that there was so little cheese industry here in Missouri. And the laws were very open as far as using raw milk and using really high-quality ingredients. And, you know, things have changed over the years and over the decades. But Missouri has always been very good about. Because things don't change as quickly as some of the other states and there's not as much of an industry here, the rules don't get changed as often. And so, you are allowed to do things that they were doing hundreds of years ago. And so a lot of those artisan products are now being able to be produced here in Missouri because we still allow for the use of raw milk and primarily that a lot of places don't like Illinois, allow you to do, or places like Wisconsin, where you've got to have 20 years under your belt before you can even attempt to become a master cheese maker and start your own process. So, Missouri has always been really liberal in that and so it allowed for a lot more experimentation and people tasting and showing off you know really interesting wares.
Lydia Gwin
Yeah, what are some good Missouri cheeses because you're saying that we've got some unique here?
Simon Lehrer
The newest ones that we've seen are from Grisontaler which are they are just a south of Springfield. I've never been down there I guess they're in a small town called Ava, Missouri which is right on the Arkansas border. He’s a Swiss immigrant and has been coming up with some beautiful cheeses. Our most popular cheese is all Missouri milk but it's a raw milk English shell cheddar called the Flory's Truckle. But there's all sorts of really great cheeses that are being made in Missouri right now. I don't want to leave Green Dirt Farms either.
Lydia Gwin
I was gonna mention them because we did an interview with them and I'm not gonna lie I am hands down won over and it is one that I like to introduce people to.
Simon Lehrer
Absolutely. Yeah, sheep's milk is one of my all-time favorites. It's just so rich and buttery. And people, especially in the United States don't see very many sheep's milk cheeses. And so, it's always one to introduce them to because it's just a little bit unique. And it seems to be a great crowd pleaser.
Lydia Gwin
I feel like it's a great combination. Like if you like sort of that creaminess of goat cheese. But you don't want that tang, go with that sheep's milk. It's delicious.
Joe Prosperi
So as somebody that may not be totally from St. Louis... How do you feel about Provel?
Simon Lehrer
I think it's great on pizzas. You know, I think St. Louis style pizzas are tremendous. I absolutely love it. Provel is, I think, you know, rather unique to St. Louis, which I also really like, I don't think, you know, we need to try and make Chicago style pizza, we're close enough, or anything else. And I don't think anybody's gonna want to copy us either. I think we've pretty much got it down. And, you know, we should just keep doing what we're doing.
Lydia Gwin
So, we're talking about cheeses. What would be a great like, sort of surprise? I always like to have one that people have never tried before on my charcuterie board. What would you say is like a great, favorite crowd pleaser? But it's also like something that's uncommon that people haven't been introduced to yet?
Simon Lehrer
So, on cheeses, I would say like the most popular one is that Flory's Truckle. You know, it's something that is, you know, a local touchstone. It utilizes the raw milk, but it has those cheddary backbone flavors, but it's so much more complex than almost any other American cheddar that's out there. I mean, there's a couple of other you know, the Beatrice flagship and, you know, Hook's 12 year. There are some other really great American cheddars, but it definitely stands out as one of the top American cheddars. And then, you know, going further than that, you know, I think it's world class. So, I think that's always a surprising one for a lot of people. In the sheep's milk realm, there is cheese from France, it has a beautiful, silky, velvety texture and almost no sharpness to it. So that's one that is really always something that almost everybody can get behind. It's also aged out over 60 days, so there's no lactose left in the cheese, which is also important for a lot of people. So that makes it a lot more accessible for a crowd especially that you don't know. And just the fact that it's made sheep's milk, and most people probably couldn't name more than three sheep's milks, cheeses off of the top of their head, so that usually makes it unique. Goat's milk is a little bit tougher for people just because it's a little less of a crowd pleaser. In general, I would say 50% of new people that walk in the shop really enjoy goat's milk cheeses. They can be a little bit strong or tangy or have that barnyardy flavor to them that can sometimes be off putting. But if people want to do a goat's milk cheese, the soft cheeses from Beachy. Again, another local one, I think is always.... because of their herbs are flavored and they've got plain ones too. But that's a good accessible one that people tend to like and then on the firmer side, goat's milk goudas are really good. Legally, they can't truly be called goudas because in Holland, you have to use pasteurized cow's milk to make Gouda cheeses. But they do make different styles of goudas utilizing those goat's milk, but they call them other names than Gouda because they just can't utilize the name.
Lydia Gwin
We know the saying gouda as always good-a, so.
Joe Prosperi
I've had a goat's milk Gouda. I think it was at your house or a charcuterie board at some point. I remember being like, I don't think I've ever had a goat's milk Gouda. I remember that stuck in my head as something that was delicious. I love goat's milk cheese.
Lydia Gwin
Yeah. Okay, so we've talked cheese… let's talk about wine. Because I feel like that is more of what we're interested in when we throw a party.
Joe Prosperi
It's the piece that pulls any good party together,
Lydia Gwin
Right. So, what would you recommend if someone is planning a party, how to select a variety of wines to please a crowd?
Simon Lehrer
So, when we're putting parties together, we usually do four different wines, sometimes up to six. But if we do four wines, we really look at the season. More people drink whites and roses and hot weather, and reds in cool weather. Also, the time of day, plays a little bit of a, you know, sparkling wine if you're going to be drinking in the morning, big reds later in the evening. So that definitely plays a little bit into it as well. But either one or two white wines and one or two red wines, with a rosé always in the middle. And then sparkling and fortified wines are sort of your wildcards depending on the party, and what the interest level is for people, and you know how adventurous they are. Some groups just will never drink sweet wine. Some groups only drink sweet wine. And so, knowing your crowd is very important.
Lydia Gwin
Yes, for sure. Oh, we already know that your wife would have sauvignon blanc on her menu.
Joe Prosperi
"Sav. B" as she calls it. I can't go to the grocery store without being like, "Hey, can you give me a bottle of "Sav B"?
Simon Lehrer
Those are definitely the hot wines ever since the pandemic. People used to drink Pino Grigios and Chardonnays and Sauvignon Blanc has well surpassed all of those. When people all of a sudden were put to the test and like, I don't know you're just picking something for yourself. What would you like it to be? Sauvignon Blanc is where most people wind up.
Joe Prosperi
My wife is on trend.
Lydia Gwin
Okay, so I gotta ask is merlot making a comeback?
Joe Prosperi
We're not drinking any D&%$ merlot!
Lydia Gwin
I know that poor statement plummeted any sort of interest in merlot. It's actually a great wine.
Simon Lehrer
It is.
Lydia Gwin
But I just wanted to ask like, do you feel like enough time has passed that people have forgotten?
Simon Lehrer
Yes, I absolutely think so. It's not nearly where it was. You know, 25 years ago, the merlots were definitely... I don't think the statement was wrong. Back then. There was a lot of overproduced merlots that was not that interesting, and there wasn't a lot of great Pinot Noir. Now the roles have really reversed. Pinot Noir became such a darling and is now probably overproduced and merlot is the opposite way where they couldn't give it away for so long that the only ones that have survived are pretty amazing. And are much better values than a lot of the inexpensive, or more well-known Pinot Noirs.
Joe Prosperi
So, we're gonna change that now and say I'm not drinking no d&%$ Pinot Noir.
Simon Lehrer
That's right.
Lydia Gwin
But what I love about Merlot is that I don't think a lot of people realize is it's also the wine choice... It's usually blended with a lot of reds, right? Like it's very, it's very versatile, but it adds just some great roundness to some of the heavier wines.
Simon Lehrer
Absolutely, you know, it's one of the big five in Bordeaux, what we saw was always traditionally blended. And you still, I would say, you saw more, blended in a lot of the California wines again, because the prices were ridiculously low on it, that it added a lot of complexity and a lot of interest to less expensive wines, because all of a sudden, you know, in California, you only have to use 75% of whatever you're actually putting in the bottle to call it that. So, when Cabernet and Pinot Noir are expensive. You can put 25% of merlot that literally they're just dumping in there and still call it Cab or Pino or whatever you want.
Joe Prosperi
I did not know that that's fascinating.
Simon Lehrer
Yeah.
Lydia Gwin
So, let's, what's the new trend with wines? Like what are the new wines that are coming out that are sort of creating the buzz?
Simon Lehrer
The two hot terms I would say are orange wine and natural wines. Those are definitely the two and they definitely coincide a little bit with one another. But those are definitely the two hot things that people walk in and ask for on a pretty regular basis.
Joe Prosperi
What's an orange wine?
Simon Lehrer
So, the way I like to describe orange wines are most people are familiar with rosés, which are red wines made like white wines. Orange wines are white wines made like red wines. And so, they are stronger, more full-flavored versions of their white wine counterpart.
Joe Prosperi
Oh, okay. I think I'd like that.
Simon Lehrer
The wines I would say most people are familiar with that are orange wines that are somewhat of a bad example, because most people have a negative connotation of them, are sherries. Sherries are all made in orange wine fashion. Now they're also fortified and so and a lot of times sweet. So, a lot of people get the wrong impression on orange wines in general. But those are the wines. Those are the flavors those nutty, rich flavors that you get in a lot of the orange wines.
Joe Prosperi
Well, this has been fantastic. Hopefully everybody feels a little more confident walking away knowing that there are resources out there, places to go, things to get, cheeses to try, at places like Parker's Table. Simon thank you so much for stopping in today.
Simon Lehrer
Thanks for having me.